Ep 49 – The Summons: Tom Phillips vs. Thomas S. Monson – Part 2

Written by on February 20, 2014

Special guest Tom Phillips is joined by Scott, Matt, Bob and Glenn to discuss the recent summons against Thomas S. Monson and the LDS Church. Part two explores:
• The criteria Tom Phillips used to select his seven charges against the church
• How the UK has jurisdiction over a US citizen
• What could happen if Monson is found guilty
• Whether or not this case could simply be thrown out
• The unique way the British government pays a portion of tithing money directly to the church on behalf of its citizen.
• How Tom’s experience with the 2nd anointing could play in to all of this

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  1. Duke of Earl Grey   On   February 20, 2014 at 4:37 pm

    On the way to the bathroom, I’m not American, I’m Russian! 🙂 And on the way out, I’m Finnish.
    (Not a substantive comment, I know, but hopefully it won’t start a flame war.)

    • Randy_Snyder   On   February 20, 2014 at 6:05 pm

      It seems you got the Glenn-style joke of using a horrible, awful joke in light of the last comment thread. Glenn is Andy Kaufman-esque with his humor. I’m more of a Louis CK fan but have learned to appreciate Glenn’s humor.

      • JT   On   February 22, 2014 at 10:47 pm

        When I’m in the bathroom I’m usually Chilean and try not to leave it Somalian from being Malagasy for those Kuwaiti after I’m Ghanian.

      • Randy_Snyder   On   February 23, 2014 at 2:06 am

        JT, you deliver bad bathroom jokes at an AP level. That’s advanced placement where I come from.

      • JT   On   February 24, 2014 at 4:59 pm

        “Behold, my bowels are filled with
        compassion towards you” (3 Nephi 17) for the seed [of kindness] you have spilt [on my] ground (Genesis 38:9)
        And more apropos than you could knows!
        I’ve always hoped the AP Physics,
        Chemistry, Calculus, and Statistics courses I’ve taught these last two
        decades would someday inspire me to squeeze out such literary butt sculptures.
        P.S. At this moment I’m sitting in front of a class as my students work on Taylor series problems.

      • Randy_Snyder   On   February 24, 2014 at 8:56 pm

        JT you always amuse me. Care to ever come on? We can talk American education (especially science education) or if memory serves me right, you have interesting questions about the Mormon god. Maybe we can have Seb from the UK join us.

      • JT   On   February 24, 2014 at 10:31 pm

        I’d be honored to … at some point. I’d like to discuss/think about it first. Can you get to my e-mail through this post?

  2. M   On   February 20, 2014 at 4:42 pm

    Giving these piecemeal is torturous, because it’s so good. A huge thank you for your hard work and can’t wait for part 3.

  3. Seeking Goodness   On   February 21, 2014 at 9:43 pm

    So glad I listened to these, definitely gives more credence to the suit.
    I’m glad the podcast addresses this, but I do wish the “six points of fraud” had been chosen differently. As a TBM, I never believed (nor was taught) the earth was 6000 years old, and did not feel evolution was incompatible with doctrine. Those beliefs were not critical in temple attendance. We can’t prove GAs believe them literally. AND those two points are shared with other religions. I think the REASON for Joseph Smith’s martyrdom is a pretty weak link too- that is not critical to belief, nor is it taught in a very straightforward pervasive way like the others. I, as a full NON-believer, could find wiggle room in saying Joseph Smith died because he wouldn’t change his story/testimony of the church and polygamy, even if he was imprisoned for a different and very specific reason.
    I fear those three points weaken the way people will perceive the case.
    To me, the strongest points are BoM translation method and BoA origins. These two ARE critical to testimony, unique to mormonism, and are clearly misrepresented all over the place in church materials.
    I also would love to see the First Vision account in this list, as that is far more critical to belief, is taught much more widely and clearly in the church, and is pretty easy to prove didn’t happen as the official church account says it does.

    • M   On   February 22, 2014 at 1:42 pm

      However, many True Blue Mormons do believe the earth is only 6000 years old and disregard evolution because of what the General Authorities say (or don’t say) over the pulpit and in the pamphlets. Those beliefs aren’t critical in temple attendance authorization because it is most likely assumed if you are attending the temple you believe in the temple creation story film, which is highly sacred to the point you “shouldn’t” talk about it outside of the temple. Even if some Mormons interpret the creation film as another metaphor for teaching only, others (the majority) will see the film as literal and historical because church leadership never directly says it is only metaphorical. I get that there is more room today for “progressive Mormonism”, where a Mormon could accept evolution and fudge their answers to the horrible temple recommend questions, but I have yet to see talks at General Conference which whole heartedly accept evolution and an earth that is billions of years old, quite the contrary. I guess my point is regardless of how free thinking an indiviual mormon, their family, their ward or even stake is, as a whole the church is still pushing out those myths, some very disturbing.

      • Blake   On   March 20, 2014 at 1:31 pm

        I have been raised in the church and have actually been taught that evolution is compatable and that the “6000 years” and the “7 day creation” teachings are actually untrue and not taught by the church

  4. Seeking Goodness   On   February 21, 2014 at 9:52 pm

    Also, I have no idea what Tom Phillips looks like, so I pictured him as Michael Caine. Made for a very interesting listen;)

  5. 3GrandKeys   On   February 23, 2014 at 9:08 am

    I’d never heard a firsthand account concerning what church leaders are advised to say if anyone asks them if they’ve met Jesus face to face. That was pretty sickening.

  6. Janet Freeland Steinmetz   On   February 25, 2014 at 12:23 am

    I really enjoyed the discussion… I’m eager to see how it will turn out in the British court. My prediction: Thomas S. Monson and the LDS will stall, putting things off as best they can. Too bad I don’t live in UK and luckily, I didn’t pay much tithing money. The payout might be good!

  7. Dan   On   March 17, 2014 at 9:11 am

    This will be thrown out of court! It is to close to ripping on religion. Separation of church and state. Even if other countries do not have this written in law it is wrong to have a court go after a religion for teachings and beliefs. This guy is just angry at the Mormon church! Find something better to do with your time Tom!

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