Ep 322 – Religious Freedom Smackdown Pt 2

Written by on November 6, 2016

Heather, Jake, Matt, and Glenn finally circle back to finish the smackdown they started with Religious Freedom Pt 1. Jerks of various shapes take place.

  1. Boyd K. Scalia   On   November 7, 2016 at 12:48 am

    With all due respect, this was less of a smackdown and more of a stumble around. A subject matter expert in the establishment and free exercise clauses of the First Amendment would have greatly aided this discussion. Or at least someone who has read the pertinent cases and can speak intelligently and accurately about what they mean. Without anyone like that, the discussion quickly turned into a long rambling guess-fest, for example, about the meaning of key concepts like what a “public accommodation” is.
    Y’all are great, but on this topic your greatness didn’t compensate for a lack of accurate knowledge about the subject you were discussing.

  2. Gail_F_Bartholomew   On   November 8, 2016 at 12:14 am

    Jake look up the Colbert report nailed em Mormon church trust pass
    This what they mean by loss of control

  3. Catherine   On   November 8, 2016 at 12:14 am

    Regarding a point made early on during the “these things aren’t real threats to religious freedom” part of the speech…circa 2008, there was a video going around of elder bednar doing a staged q and a with college students about the potential ramifications of prop 8 passing. One of the things he said was that the church would not be able to teach it’s doctrine…so some of these “myths” were started by the top.
    Heres the video: https://youtu.be/__rgv-sUpY0

  4. Cliff   On   November 9, 2016 at 11:20 pm

    2 cents in case you care about one dude’s thoughts while listening to this episode that was otherwise an interesting listen:
    TL;DR – Let those Infants with the most knowledge on a given subject (Heather and Matt in this case) have the most air time.
    At the risk of being accused of accusing some of the infants of acting in a sexist manner during this highly charged political season, damn Glenn and Jake! It’s probably just your personalities and your over excitement of expressing your thoughts and opinions, but go back and listen to this! You guys were talking over Heather almost every time she started responding to one of your questions or comments, especially after she repeatedly demonstrated that she had way more knowledge and research behind her opinions than anything you were able to contribute to the conversation. It was hard to listen to at certain points. I was relieved when Matt came into the conversation and finally show Heather some deference so she didn’t have to fight for air time.

  5. Thomas Moore   On   November 10, 2016 at 1:44 am

    Although the corporation is trying to use “religious” freedoms to fight same-sex marriage and polygamists; they’re opening up a can of worms for other “religious” freedoms.
    1) Exorcisms where a person is held hostage. Some of these “demons” are mental illness, being gay, drug / alcohol abuse. These practices do not allow a person to get the medical and psychological help they need.
    2) The physical abuse of children. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/indiana-woman-charged-with-child-abuse-claims-religious-freedom/
    3) Although claimed as illegal in many states; you know that many churches and parents are still going to practice “pray the gay away” http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/pray-the-gay-away-bernadette-c-barton/1110854891?ean=9780814786376
    4) Animal sacrifice (kosher butchering/ Muslim butchering) Santeria and other religions are still practicing this, as are Hasidic Jews during Rosh Hashanah. http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/12/us/supreme-court-animal-sacrifice-court-citing-religious-freedom-voids-ban-animal.html
    5) Brainwashing???? forced fasting, forced girls to wear hair long/dresses
    6) Of course the Christian Scientists and Jehovah Witnesses and others who don’t seek medical help for themselves or their children.
    So although, as a gay man, I appreciate you guys taking on the same-sex marriage because it is the #1 issue to religions at this time, there are many other just as scary issues that have been fought over. It was the Mormons who actually brought the Federal Government into Marriage laws with the Edmunds and Edmunds-Taft Act.

  6. Ophanim   On   November 10, 2016 at 5:27 am

    heather referred to an inside story about the roll-out of the nov 15′ policy change from kutv? can you share the link?

  7. Orrin Dayne   On   November 10, 2016 at 8:41 pm

    It seems like Mr. Dushku was saying, “Don’t worry about these religious freedoms because they are protected by the First Amendment, but worry about these other religious freedoms.” I would submit that something is not a religious freedom if it is not protected by the First Amendment, nor is something a Constitutional right if it is not protected by any other portion of the Constitution. Instead, it is just a freedom or benefit to which no person or institution is inherently entitled. Dushku, by referring to something as a “religious freedom” that is not protected by the First Amendment, is a spin doctor.

  8. homeless_disqus   On   November 12, 2016 at 5:59 pm

    @HeatherCraw:disqus – Can you provide a link to the story you told about Uchtdorf being out of town when Nelson pushed the policy onto Monson?

  9. Jason Nelson-Seawright   On   November 17, 2016 at 3:42 pm

    I’m enjoying this discussion so much! On the interracial marriage point, I think the analogy holds up much better than the panel suggests. While it’s true that the racial temple and priesthood ban was never as theologically central as contemporary ideas about gender, sexuality, and marriage, that’s just grasping a piece of the puzzle. 19th century Mormonism was foundationally about lineages — literal bloodlines. Ideas about chosen lineages and inheriting righteous blood were key to the theology of polygamy. We all know how important these ideas are in the Book of Mormon. And Mormons in that period also tended to theologize themselves and converts as literal blood heirs of the tribes of Israel. Given all this baggage, I think the church’s evolution on race and ethnicity is 100% as remarkable as the future first temple sealing of a gay or lesbian couple will be.

  10. Timmy Tim   On   March 5, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    You guys fully botched the meaning of the word “accommodation” in this context. Go back to the base word, “accommodate”. There are a number of legal contexts where this has nothing to do with “lodging” or “meals”, and everything to do with providing the means whereby the person who might be discriminated against is given the opportunity to substantially the same treatment as everyone else. That might come in the form of a restroom, freedom from harassment, etc etc. In this case, it’s close to the same meaning as “accommodation” in an educational context.

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